SPEAKER_03 0:00

Welcome to Midlife Women Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Lynette Turner, and today our core question is how do you stand out and build trust as a small business without trying to look perfect or big? If you're a midlife woman building a business, you've probably felt this way. You're good at what you do, but your marketing feels a little generic. You post, you tweak your website, you second guess your words, and still wonder why people aren't finding you. Well, here's the solution. You don't need to look bigger, you need to sound clearer, more human, and more specific to the right people to trust you and to find you faster. My guest is Shauna Suko, author of Small Is Your Superpower and host of the underestimated podcast. And we're going to cover all of that today. And we have a special segment for you today. Halfway through this episode, we're bringing on a second guest for a quick hot seat so you can hear real time Shauna at work. She's going to use her frameworks live so you can borrow the questions and apply them to your own business. So without further ado, I'm going to welcome Shauna. Shauna, welcome. Give yourself an introduction. Who do you help and what do you do to help them?

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Hi, Lynette. Thanks for having me. So uh I help small businesses to stand out and build trust and become unforgettable. And I do that primarily through speaking and writing and my podcast, and I do some consulting as well. Uh and I strongly believe that now is finally the era where small businesses have real leverage against big ones because of the way that humans are changing, especially Americans and Canadians.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Yeah. And you know, that's I love that because I feel like right now, just with the whole AI and I just feel like everybody's getting gobbled up. So, you know, when you say small business is your superpower, what does that really mean?

SPEAKER_01 1:59

It means that, so I've been studying consumer trust for uh over 15 years. And we have never been at a at a place where we have such high distrust, especially of companies. And the bigger the company, the higher the level of distrust. So, because of that interesting confluence of events, it means that we trust small businesses more, but only if we know they're small businesses. And the challenge is a lot of small businesses through the years have been taught that the right way to do business is to appear corporate and professional and as big as your competitors. And that's just the opposite of what we need to be doing today to capture this trust that we so much easier can capture than big businesses can.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Yeah, you know, that's interesting. What do you think big companies are getting wrong, I guess, in their marketing? Do you think that back in the day, we as small business owners were copying essentially the marketing tactics of the bigger companies?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yes, because if those big companies have millions of dollars to use toward their marketing, if they have huge teams that are making decisions and they hire outside agencies, they must know more than we do. And so we did emulate them for a long time, and many, many small businesses still do. But that puts us in the same sandbox as these big businesses. And unless we do have millions of dollars in huge teams, there's no way that that's a level playing field for us. And so we have to do what I what I call playing in our own sandbox and not play by their rules, but play by our rules and leverage the things that make us special and trustworthy and human. And uh big corporations, they just struggle with that. They always have, and they come across as too perfect and too glossy, too shiny stock photos and actors and perfect lighting and all that. And it's just today that creates a barrier of trust between them and their potential customers.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Right. So, what do you think that a small business owner is doing or has been doing that they should actually stop copying? You did mention a few things like the, you know, the stock photos and stuff like that. But can you get like maybe a list of five or six things that people could should stop copying, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yes. So stop copying the professionalism. And by that I mean everything is perfect and everything sounds as if it was written. This is where AI can really lead you down the wrong path. Sounds like it was written by an agency somewhere. And really what we need to do is adopt our own voice because people trust other people more and we are seeking connection, real connection more than we ever have before. We've heard of the loneliness epidemic. Well, that translates to businesses too. We want real connection and we want to know that there's life on the other side of the website or the counter. Um, if it's a brick and mortar store, we just we want to see something real. And so what that translates to in your marketing is just talk to people as if you are talking to a neighbor or a friend, and stop trying to posture as if you are a big corporation. And that means to me, um, selfie videos are wonderful. And you don't have to be with the perfect backdrop and perfect lighting and all this. Um, you can just be walking down the street, and that is far, far more trustworthy than even us sitting in our offices right now. Um, because offices, you know, our backgrounds can be perfectly curated or they can be AI. Um, but if you're just walking down the street, you tend to be, it stops the scroll. Or if you're at an airport, like the the most popular video I've done in a while, I was walking through an airport and the sound was not great, and I was moving, and so the video is not great. I was on my cell phone, so it wasn't stable. And that's what people are craving now more and more, right? It's just that sense of realness, of of humanness behind the business.

SPEAKER_03 6:29

And you know, you just said something there that really sort of tweaked something in me where you were talking about the um the loneliness factor. Talk a little bit more about that, because boy, do I think you're onto something there, truly.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Unfortunately, I can't claim that. It's the loneliness epidemic. I wish I knew who coined that term, but it started during really during COVID. We were so disconnected. And COVID is long over, but so many of us still work from home and maybe we never did before. And we just got so used to staying in and not really going out and socializing and doing much, and it became a habit. And it has caused this loneliness epidemic where people are searching for real connection with other humans and not just, you know, via Zoom or whatnot. They're searching for real connection, real live human-to-human connection. And that plays into absolutely how we can market better by just talking like real people, having giving our customers and prospects a way to see behind the curtain and see what's real and see when we're frustrated or when we didn't have a great day or when a problem happened. And and to show what I call, and I didn't coin this either, I just call it the messy middle, where um we tend to, as business owners of all kinds, especially big corporations, we only show the pretty end result. But we will build so much trust and we'll stand out more if we show the messy middle of. Um, I talk, one example I give is of a baker who bakes perfect cupcakes, and you only see the perfect cupcakes. What would stop the scroll is if that baker said, we just had one of our mixers break, and look at this. There's flour everywhere, and this is crazy. And we've got this order, this deadline that we have to meet, and we'll let you know how it turns out. But I just wanted to show you what's going on. That's interesting. I would be like, oh, okay, I'm gonna stay tuned. I'm gonna follow them. I'm going to comment. I hope it turns out okay. Suddenly they're a real person running a real business, not just this perfect facade of perfect cupcakes. So we want to see more of that. What's the human element behind all of this? That gives us a sense of connection, even if it's one too many, even if, you know, I am sharing that video with thousands or even I would love to share it with millions of people, but most small businesses, we don't, we don't have that kind of audience. But, you know, even if we have an audience of a hundred, that's the kind of stuff that resonates more and gets shared and gets commented on.

SPEAKER_03 9:17

Yeah, that that's really good. And so essentially what you're saying is the bigger the entity, the higher the distrust. And so the small business can win because they can be real and they can flub up a little bit. You know, flub up. I don't even know if that's a word, but you know, they can like it. Yeah, you know, they make mistakes. Um, I love that example of, you know, if you're always showing the perfect cupcake, because cupcakes be they can be kind of perfect, you know, or cakes in general. And so if you show that, you know, it flopped or it, you know, it didn't rise like it should have, that I think is a really good way. That's really good. So let's go into uh the next segment that I want to talk a little bit about, which is the 60-second stop the scroll challenge. So what we're gonna try to do is get this sort of pattern interrupt, like get these people to stop scrolling, as you kind of mentioned. So, what is the one thing that a listener can do today that's gonna stop the scroll and earn trust faster?

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Well, a lot of times when a small business is putting out a video or any type of post, a lot of times it is a promotion and it's logic, it's facts, features, benefits, and that does nothing to stop the scroll. So, what I'm talking about is whatever you do, if you can tell a story or um instill some sort of emotion in the person who's watching or reading, that makes you stand out, it builds trust, and it makes you unforgettable in the long run over time, that's what we're going for. So storytelling is by far the easiest way. And what I talked about with the cupcakes, that's a story. Um, another uh, another example, like uh candles. There's a million candles. You go to like TJ Maxx or or Nordstrom Rec, there's a million candles everywhere. You can tell where I shop, right? Yeah. There's a million candles everywhere. And it's, you know, when pressed, we probably couldn't name more than one brand. And so, how does a candle company stand out when there's so much competition and it's kind of homogenous? Well, rather than just saying, here's our new line of candles for this season, here's our new fall candle or whatever, and it comes in these scents. Those were all features and benefits, no emotion. What if you told a story like this is this candle was born from a memory I have of my grandmother when I was five, and she was baking an apple pie. And what she did was she took all the leftover crust and she sprinkled it with sugar and cinnamon, and she baked up those little strips of crust just for me. And that scent has stayed with me since I was five. And I have recreated that in this candle. I mean, I just got goosebumps telling that because that's actually a real memory of mine. Yeah, and I love that. I love that. You know, it's so much better than here is a list of our new scents, and they are soy-based and they burn for 12 hours. Those are nice to know, but they're not differentiators. So anything humanizing, emotional, storytelling, anything like that is a hundred times better than anything that a corporation is doing or trying to do. You can see them trying to do stuff like that. They can't. Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

What do you think? Like if you're thinking about um, like I'm thinking about my customer avatar, and you've got customer avatars, uh, like your ideal client. What do you think is the one sentence a small business can post that instantly signals, oh, Lynette can help me or Shauna can help me, like I'm for you. What's that ingredient, I guess?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

That involves knowing what I call your exact right customer. Who is your exact right customer? Because otherwise, what you post is way too broad because you this is another challenge that small businesses have, especially when they're just starting out, is they don't want to draw a thin line separating their potential customers, their niche from everybody else who might have a dollar to spend. And they're like, we just need all the customers we can get at the beginning. Well, that's the opposite of what we need to be doing. And so if you can narrow down your exact right customer, who, if you could, would you clone and only serve that type of customer? Well, if you have one line, say you're limited to one line, like a headline on your website, for example, you want to make it so specific that your exact right customer goes, Oh my gosh, they get me. They're they understand me and they're not just for everybody. So it starts with figuring out who that is and writing a sentence that resonates with them so much. So it's kind of starts with asking that first question. I can't answer the second one without knowing who your exact right customer is. And I have a a great case study for that if you want to hear it.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yeah, I would love to.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

There is a uh there is a tattoo shop that is about 10 miles from where I live. And there are many tattoo shops between me and them. And so it's not proximity that's gonna get me through the door. It's not reputation because they're brand new. So how do they get customers and how do they get someone like me to pay attention? Well, uh, this is a woman-owned tattoo shop, which is rare. Um, male-owned tattoo shops make up the bulk of tattoo shops. And she was so brave when she started this business, which has only been around it's maybe six months now, maybe eight, is she said, I only want to target women customers. Also, I don't know of anybody that's done that. I'm sure there may be others, but I've never heard of one. And so all of her marketing is about women customers and tattoos that for women and a safe, comfortable space for women of all ages. And her menu of services is so different. She has like bestie tattoo packages where you bring in your bestie and you get matching tattoos. Like regular tattoo shops don't typically offer that. And you can bring a group and have a buyout night, and you can bring, you know, snacks and champagne and have like a bachelorette party or whatever. And she has given so much thought to how to make women interested, comfortable, and to stand out to them, even though it alienates at least 60% of the market out there, if not more. I would drive, I would drive past five other shops to go there.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

So it it, you know, and that's the thing. I think a lot of people think, oh, if I if I niche down too much, I'm going to eliminate. But in fact, she probably isn't, you know, it's maybe the guy isn't going, but the guy is telling his girlfriend about it, or the guy is telling his wife about it, or, you know, or maybe the guy is going. Like, I mean, I don't ish is she like not taking bench? It's only for women, or that's uh against the law, so she can't say I only work when they are taking the food.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

But through all of her marketing, it's women and people who identify as women. Yeah, exactly. They know, oh my gosh, this is she sees me. She wants to make me feel comfortable because I've been in some tougher feeling tattoo shops where I feel like, okay, here comes me. I'm like TJ Maxx mom with my pink hair and my sunny disposition, and I don't fit.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

So where do I fit?

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Yeah. I I fit there. Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. It's um, you know, and and just again, like we we want to cast a net and try to cap catch all the fish. But if you if it's narrower, in fact, you're probably gonna do better than this watered-down offer because you're saying she's excluded maybe 60% of the market, who knows exactly the percentage, but she's got a solid 40%. Whereas if she was trying to compete with all the seven, like you said, that we're all in a row, she probably only would have 10% of the market.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

If that she would struggle and she would get proximity, she eventually would build, if she's good, she eventually would build a reputation and word of mouth, but she's gotten media coverage because she's so different. And she gets referred like crazy. And um, she came up in my feed on TikTok just because of proximity and demographics. I'm a woman, whatever. And um, so she came up in my feed, and she has so many followers already from all across the country, and the comments are like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna travel to Minnesota to see you. And what more could you want? I mean, obviously she's reaching locals like me, but people are sharing that and the saves that you can see, the number of people who've saved that. It's it's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah, no, that that is amazing. All right, well, just as I promised, we are halfway through the episode and we are gonna just turn this whole next segment into a hot seat. My wonderful friend Catherine has joined us from New York. Catherine and I have worked before together. Her and I actually met through the podcast. She was a guest, and then I took her up on one of her VIP strategy sessions, which was amazing. So, Catherine, thank you for joining us today. This segment is meant to give you an idea of what it would be like to work with Shauna and hopefully you just steal some really good ideas from her today. So uh, Shauna, I'm gonna hand the floor over to you and we'll get started.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Sure. So, Catherine, why don't we just treat this as if Lynette, you know, uh introduced us and we decided to meet at a coffee shop. Yeah, perfect. I love to talk about, like I don't really know much about you. So tell me about your business. Certainly.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

So uh my business, I work with owners of creative businesses, agencies, definitely service-based businesses only, but typically in those realms. So think digital marketing, public relations, branding, video production, and I help them put strategy and growth plans so that they can profitably scale their businesses. Typically, they come to me when they're doing really well, but they're also doing all the things in the their own business, and they just don't even know what lever to pull first in order to get to that next level of growth. And I come in and work with them on a holistic plan across all aspects of their business to put that plan together.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Okay. And what is the common thread with them? Are they of a certain size or is there a certain point at which they need you most?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

I would say um a a couple of, well, probably two, maybe three entry points. One is, I mean, they're definitely well into six figures, usually at least 150,000 in revenue, maybe a bit more. And they're so busy delivering the work that they can't work in, you know, they're working, delivering the work, they can't work on their business. So that's one, and they know they want to grow, they just don't know what to do. Sometimes they come, and most of my clients want to rebrand in some way. They know that they want to elevate who they're working with, how they're working. So they come to me when they're like, oh yeah, no, I need to rebrand, or I want to start working with these other customer segments. Like, how do I go about that? And then I've also been working with, especially female founders or women women, people that identify as female, when they've had their business for some time, like one case seven years, another case 20 years, and they stepped away or they lost their focus and they need to get that engine of the business going again. And they come to me to help them get that engine going.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

If you could, let's say, say we met at a cocktail reception of some kind, networking reception of some kind, and you tell me what you do, and I say, tell me. More. What five words would you use to describe your business and what you do? Like adjectives that so your goal is to really stand out to me and leave me going, ooh, okay. Yeah, for sure. Strategy, plan, planning, that's an adjective, accountability, structure, and commitment. Okay. You came up with those really quickly, and I want to applaud you because this is an exercise I typically do with my audiences, and it's hard. It is. I'm not gonna, I'm I'm gonna say it wasn't easy, hence the closing of the eyes and uh me trying to Yeah. I mean, you did this on the spot. So when you have more time, this is probably something that you can give more thought to, but just for just for exploration purposes. So these five things are all fabulous. I think every business needs one of you. I need a a mini Catherine on my shoulder that can tell me about strategy and all these things because I am pretty terrible at all of those things. So you work with creatives who a lot of them are probably like me. We're terrible at these things and we prefer to be creative. We don't want to keep our eyes on this stuff. Right is that accurate? That is 100% correct. Okay, so so these five words are all great things to be. So my challenge to you, as your homework, once this is all said and done, is to figure out how you would say these five things in a way that nobody, none of your other competitors would say that. And that is also really hard to do. AI, thankfully, can help in ways that it couldn't help five years ago when I would ask this question, because it's it's not easy. But come up with five completely unique, unique ways to say this. Okay. Um and uh there's, as we know, there's the SEO challenge. So you want to be findable for these five things, but you also need to be memorable in your marketing enough so that you stop the scroll, so that you build trust, and so that you become unforgettable. So if we're meeting at this cocktail party, I go away thinking, oh my gosh, that is so cool and unique. And I need someone like that. If I am indeed your one of your what I call your exact right customers. So you have a great idea of who your exact right customer is. Who who would you clone if you could, if you can think of one of your favorite or your absolute favorite customer? What is that person like? Or what do they do? Tell me about them. Yeah, other than Lynette, of course.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

So I um, because we did work together. So I would say I've got two partnerships that I'm working with, and they're both in super creative fields, and they're both, as all my clients are, they're awesome at what they do, right? Like they're the best. And I would clone them. Do you would you like to know why? How would you like me to approach this question? I would like to know. Uh, are they both women? One is a male-female couple in now literally, well, every sense of the word, and the other are two women. Okay. That's why I say I work mostly with women or a few people that I identify as female.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Okay. And um, what is it you love working with them? What is that about? What fuels you about working with them?

SPEAKER_02 25:21

I love that they're committed to actually doing the work. So when they show up, when we meet and we figure out the strategy and then the specific tactics and plans, are actually executing on the work that needs to be done, whether it's working on branding, one one of the two partnerships after a very lengthy process, more lengthening than they probably wouldn't have liked, given that almost two years ago I showed up when I we first met and I said, you need to change your business name because you're not gonna get a trademark, and you can't invest in branding without a trademark. So working with them on both that whole process of the rebranding, one of the things that I do really well is I have this awesome ecosystem of talent build out built out that I bring and tap in depending on where the project is at. So, you know, trademark attorney would be a good example, right? Making sure we're getting the right name and it's trademarkable. And then working with them on that branding process with the right team that we found to create the branding in the website, finding the copywriter. And at the same time, we're not ignoring their business, right? We are, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Oh no, go ahead. Finish that.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

We're not ignoring, we're not ignoring that they actually have a functioning, busy business. We're trying to make that an even better business, identifying who, like, to your point, who's their sweet spot client? Who do they most want to work with, right? What are the case studies they want on this beautiful new website, right? Who are we leaving off? And working with them to make sure all the operational pieces are in place. Are they profitable? Who is on their team? Are they expanding their team? So while that, you know, lengthy process of redesign is going on from a brand perspective, we're also working in the guts of the business.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

And even with yeah, does that make sense? Yes. Okay, so this would normally be a much lengthier conversation. We're just giving like a taste of this. So I'm not gonna be able to go super deep, but what you've given is a fantastic, like I've got a picture in my mind of this. And so what I would say, what fires you up about these clients is the exact thing to say in your marketing that will attract the right clients. If you are committed, if you are ready for change, if you're ready to do the hard work, all those things. So flush out that list a little bit more, since we don't have a lot of time to do that here. And those things that you love about them are the same things to use in your marketing to attract more people like them who are ready for what you offer and will really appreciate it and let you into their whole ecosystem and really embrace your whole process, which it sounds like is another thing you just love. You don't want to just be a tip of the iceberg kind of partner. Right. So, in a nutshell, work on those five words and incorporate those into your marketing, keeping in mind, of course, we still need SEO. So you don't want to lose strategy, planning, accountability, structure, and commitment. So those would be like those would live on your website and occasionally in your social media and collateral. But social media needs needs to more be the place where you stop the scroll. And so what would catch the attention of your exact right customers like this is saying what you just said to me and telling stories of people who are like them. We talked about, Nett and I talked about stories being so much more than features and benefits. So that's why you don't want these five words to constantly be used on social media because they're features and benefits. But if you turned each one of these into a story that involved a client, that you were able to help with strategy or accountability or commitment. And maybe it's all the same client and you just do it in parts. Yes. But tell those stories and really infuse it with the emotion that you felt and the emotion that they felt, and it will convey to people and they will stop. As long as, you know, our tendency, so we're we both sounds like we both go way back with branding and creative. Our tendency back in the day was the perfect lighting and the perfect backdrop and sound and so forth. But can you just be sitting somewhere talking about it? You know? And so the more casual you are, the more trust you are gonna build. And the more you say these things, the more you're gonna attract the clients that I can tell that you absolutely love working with. Because your eyes light up when you talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 29:53

Awesome. You know, everything you said makes sense. And I'm absolutely gonna re-listen to all of this and capture all of the wisdom and experience that you shared with me. And this has been super, super helpful.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, it's you know, it's an interesting case because we're in kind of the same industry, different kind of parts of the same industry with branding and marketing and stuff. So, but I know I need this sometimes too, where the outside eyes looking in, even if it's somebody else, especially if it's somebody else in the ecosystem, it it just helps sometimes. I mean, you know all this and I know all this, but if you say it to me, I hear it differently than if I'm saying it to myself. So I appreciate you being open to the process, even though you've been doing this a long time too.

SPEAKER_02 30:35

No, I mean, but you know what? There's always at least one, I mean, two things that just like, oh yeah, like they pop off in my brain, which there was at least two things.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

If you can get one that makes me happy.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Yeah, totally. Thank you so much, Sean. I know people pay good money for this, and I appreciate being the hot seat. So thank you. Thank you for being willing.

SPEAKER_03 30:54

I actually have one little question while you were doing all of that. What happens if the person, and Catherine, you you don't really have a lot of your face on your Instagram and stuff like that. You do a lot of very different types of marketing. So, what happens when somebody isn't doing a lot of uh visual marketing? They do more newsletter marketing, stuff like that. What would how would you approach your advice in that angle?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

That has been the number one pushback that I have gotten for 15 years of talking about video and incorporating more video because most people hate the sound of their voice, they hate the way they look on camera, they don't want to do it. And but now, thanks to AI and products like HeyGen, which can do the best job of capturing you because you train it with your own footage of you speaking and you gesturing and in different situations and different conversations, you can now finally use uh an AI avatar. And it is crazy how real it looks. Some people are going to struggle with the integrity of that, and I understand that. But would you rather that your ideal customer gets the information and help that they need, even though it was delivered through a means that wasn't 100% you? Or would you rather wait days, months, years until you're comfortable enough and you they are gonna miss out on you and you're gonna miss out on them?

SPEAKER_03 32:30

Yeah. So what you were referring there, Shauna, for all the listeners is like really cloning yourself and making yourself an AI twin. When I think about the cloning and what the benefits are of cloning, it's time saving and it's efficiency. I could create 50 reels with proper scripting in half like in less in a quarter of the time, because I think about how much it takes now to just produce reels and different things like that and editing and all that kind of stuff. It it's an enormous task. So if you can use it. So yeah, that's a that was a great suggestion. I and I don't know about the integrity. I think that's just gonna get to a point where people are gonna be doing it. They're already doing it. Yeah. So it'll become the norm.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

As long as it's your thought leadership and yeah, you know, your words. What I don't like is AI pops out a script and I just load that up to Hey Gen and it does its thing, and I'm never involved. That's, you know, kind of a lack of integrity to me. So as long as I'm involved and it's using my words, even if A, I tweaked my words or my script, as long as it's still my original thought processing, I'm I am okay with it now. It wasn't always. I'm okay with it now. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Well, that was amazing. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Shauna, where do people find you? They can find me at the buyerinsider.com or on any of the major podcasting platforms with my show Underestimated, the Small Business Advantage Podcast.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Well, thank you for joining me today, Catherine. Thank you for putting yourself in the hot seat. It can be a little bit squishy. And just for everybody listening, Shauna knew nothing about Catherine. And so normally that would have been a much longer process in terms of getting to know somebody and all that kind of stuff. So and thank you again for sharing so much knowledge. So thank you both. Thank you.