SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Midlife Women Entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Lynette Turner, and today we are talking about the kind of ceiling you can't see but you can feel every time you go to take a bigger step. You look capable, you've built a life, maybe you've built a business, but inside you still second guess, overdeliver, and keep your goals reasonable. Today, my guest is Lisa Skeffington, and she calls that the glass ceiling within. Lisa is a psychodynamic mentor who helps high-achieving women clear the emotional charge behind old patterns so that they stop shrinking and start moving with real confidence. Today we're going to talk all about micro trauma, high functioning anxiety, and why some approaches keep you looping in your head instead of changing how you show up. Lisa, welcome to the show. Start by uh telling us a little bit about what you do and how you got into what you do.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Lina, hello, thank you so much for having me as a guest on your lovely show. It's a pleasure to be here. So, yeah, as she said, I'm a um consultant psychotherapist, psychodynamic mentor. I'm actually a multi-award-winning psychotherapist, psychotherapist of the year for the past three years in the UK. I'm a self-esteem expert and executive coach with over 25 years in private practice as an entrepreneur. So I mentor high achieving women in leadership, in business, and in the celebrity world. Now, these women often appear outwardly successful whilst privately struggling with high-functioning anxiety, self-doubt, and relationship strain. So through my private mentoring, my group programs, my exclusive coastal escapes here on the beautiful Dorset Coast in the UK, I help them to restore their balance, to strengthen their relationships and reclaim their voice so that they can live, love, and lead with confidence.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah, no, that's great. And so let's break this down a little bit, Lisa. First of all, on our pre-call, I was like enamored with everything you were saying. And so I want to kind of get pull out some of that conversation because I think it was so good. But first, I want to talk a little bit about high-functioning anxiety. What is it? Give me, give me it in sort of plain language. Give me some examples of what that really means. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

So high-functioning anxiety is often masked, let's say. So we can often appear to be super confident on the outside. High functioning anxiety in successful women, in busy entrepreneurs, often shows up as drive, as ambition, as motivation. This then develops into overworking, overgiving, which in turn leads to burnout. So it's like there's a silent struggle going on. Outwardly living well, internally struggling to cope. It can feel very isolating. I'm sure perhaps many of your listeners could identify with that 3 a.m. lying awake, wondering how you're going to get through the next day, when really in the morning you're up, you're out, you're on it, but internally there's this anxiety that's just quietly building, quietly wearing you down. So I help women to overcome that.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah. And so, you know, part of me when you were describing that, just sort of, it's kind of like you're putting a mask on every day. But how do I know that I I'm functioning that way? Because I feel like sometimes throughout our lives, we can be functioning in a certain way that we don't even realize we're functioning like that anymore. Which it just becomes normalized. It's it's just becomes our baseline. I'll give you an example. A few years ago, well, I'm gonna say maybe about eight or nine years ago, I got really bad vertigo. And I went to go and see a naturopath, and he took some tests and stuff like that of my levels and my blood levels and stuff. And he's like, Oh my God, your your adrenal glands are flatlined. And I was like, Oh, God, what does that even mean? And he just said, What are you stressed about? And I thought, honestly, I'm not stressed about anything. But then after I kind of backpedaled and that really stuck with me what he was saying. And I realized, I think I've been functioning at this level of stress so much for so long that I don't even think it's abnormal anymore.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Absolutely. Absolutely. And this is the danger. And this is why I'm so passionate about getting the message out there about this. Because so many of us highly, you know, high-functioning women who are who are successful don't realize that they are running these patterns that are silently running them down until they they perhaps hit a wall and then they realize, golly, what's been going on for the last five, even ten years, perhaps. So, yeah, to break this down mentally, we're looking at a general buildup of emotional exhaustion. We're looking at patterns of strain in relationships where there's disconnection, where there's a sense of emotional isolation, where there's that self-doubt creeping in, where outwardly you're smashing it, inwardly you're second-guessing. Maybe you're going back over a meeting presentation. Maybe you're those what-ifs are creeping in with how that's going to materialize for you. Physically, it takes its toll because mentally we can only take so much. So then physically, the systems begin to weaken. Our sleep is often one of the first telltale signs. When we're heading towards burnout, we can develop fibromyalgia, we can develop chronic fatigue that can often follow after about a viral illness. And it's really because the immune system is beginning to break down, because we've been running on adrenaline, because we've been running on cortisol and not realizing because it's felt, it's been there for so long, as you said, Lynette, that it feels like it's the norm.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

So on our pre-call, we talked about a glass ceiling within. I want you to describe what that is, and then tell me how does it show up? What are the three most common ways it shows up for high-achieving women? Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

So we often carry the idea, because of society, you know, pressures in society, pressures in the working culture, that the glass ceiling for women is actually something that comes from an environment, that comes from a culture within a company. But the truth is that so so many times the invisible ceiling is actually within us. It's coming from a sense of self-doubt. It's coming from that questioning that perhaps we're not quite good enough to make that next level. Perhaps we're not quite good enough to give that presentation that leaves everyone spellbound. And we hold ourselves back. And this becomes the glass ceiling. And how we perhaps compensate for this, how I've seen many, many of my clients over the years compensate for this is through people pleasing. So, you know, learning that actions bring bring approval. So sacrificing themselves, not being true to themselves. Really, we could say that they're abandoning themselves and putting someone else's needs above their own needs. And that results in people pleasing in a way that we can lose ourselves. Another way is in over-delivering, and that's where we keep trying to prove. We've learned that action proves a sense of worthiness. So we keep doing more and more and more to keep trying to prove that we that we are enough, that we are worthy enough. And the other way is the good old overthinking, where we start to rerun things through our mind over and over again. Whether it's in future fearful thinking, preempting something that might happen, or whether it's ruminating over things that have happened, where we're almost trying to create a different outcome that is beyond our control because it's already happened. So it's looking at these dynamics of influence really and getting to be comfortable with understanding what we can and can't control and really getting to know ourselves much better so that we can show up not only at work but also in our personal lives with much more authenticity so that we create deeper, more real connection, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Yeah. So where do you think it all sort of stems from? Like we don't we don't we're not born in this sort of high functioning anxiety state. So where, in your opinion, when you're working with your clients, do you think it's all stemming from?

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Well, with you know, nearly 30 years experience now, with my own personal story from trauma to triumph, I don't think I know. It's a hundred percent from childhood. It's childhood dynamics that play out for us in the boardroom, in the office, in our personal relationships, in our adult lives today. It's where we have unhealed wounds. And these can be big things, you know, what we would call psychologically a macro trauma. They can be small things, they can just be a series of micro-traumas where something happens and then something else happens and it just gets compounded and compounded. So this is what's underneath this, this is what's feeding this question, which all comes from a sense of self-doubt. Whether we are not good enough intellectually, whether we're not worthy enough, whether we are lovable enough. It's all stemming from childhood wounds. So how the mind works is, you know, when we're in a situation where we want to, present-day situation and we want to look at how we can make sense of that in order to know how to gauge a response, the mind will reconstruct events from the past that we that we handled or didn't handle by association to help us to understand what to do. So where there is a wound, it's like there's dirt in the wound when it hasn't been healed, when it hasn't been closed off. So the mind will go back to that unhealed place in order to try to get closure on that, in order to try to heal. But what it does is throw up an anxiety response that becomes self-protection because the subconscious doesn't want that happening again. And then we find that we're reacting in a situation that actually isn't always aligned with the situation we're in in the present time. We're reacting to a past event. And that's where we can start to get quite confused and mentally, consciously, we can feel that that we're really on it, that we we know how to handle something, we know what what we should do, but our response is very different because it's coming from a reaction within us. It's coming from an emotional response where there is a wound, where there's dirt in a wound.

SPEAKER_00 10:50

Yeah, I know. I love that term, dirt in a wound. I never thought about it that way. So let's back up a little bit. You said that it was sort of your own journey that kind of, you know, so it's not that you know, you know. I know firsthand. So take us into your story a bit. What shaped you early on? What were you carrying for years that kind of looked normal, I guess, on the outside? Okay, brace yourself. Okay, we're ready.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

So I grew up um in an environment of domestic violence. My father was obsessively controlling, the aggression was towards my mother, the control was towards my mother, um, until I became an an early teen. So I'd you know, I witnessed a lot, and then it became my turn. And one of the hardest things for me to reconcile in terms of being worthy enough in myself was for my mother to be in the room but not in the room, because she was in the room but not getting involved in any way because she got a night off, didn't she, if it was my turn. But for me to try to work out, well, how actually could my mother, being a mother myself, how could my mother stand by and watch that happen for her own well-being, to save herself rather than protect her child? That took a lot for me to kind of reconcile through that, to find my my sense of worth through that. So I suffered nervous convulsions as a teenager because of the violence I was living in. Um I got got out and got on with my life, actually, thanks to some amazing teachers at my school and got off and into London, into investment banking, and really felt if I can get out of that, I can do anything. My confidence seemed to be sky high, but I was wearing a mask because underneath it, truly, I was quaking. I was angry and I was quaking, I was doubting myself because I'd grown up with a narrative, not only that I was mad, and if I told anyone I would be locked up, but that I wasn't lovable or likable, that I wasn't clever. And it just over years and years and years, it eats away at you. So you you can imagine that. Maybe you you have your own story, and many of us do. I'm not alone in my story by any means. Um and but you just kind of push through it, you know. I sort of wore the mask and pushed through it in that true imposter style. Actually, a senior manager said to me one day, you know, Lisa, the only problem with your confidence is that it's a long way to fall. And I began to realize then that I was actually alienating people I needed on my side because of the mask that I was wearing. So I pushed through. Lisa, go back to that. Sorry to interrupt you, but go back to what did he say to you? He said to me, so the senior manager, he said to me one day when I was super confident and, you know, in no time at all leading a team who were my peers, but I was leading them and training them. Uh, and he said to me, the only problem with your confidence, Lisa, is that it's a long way to fall. And it was a bit of a bit of a threat, really, wasn't it? It was saying, you know, you think you're so confident, you're quite irritating because you're projecting such confidence.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

And no vulnerability. So somebody couldn't they found you sort of maybe unrelatable because everything just seemed so perfect, but they know their own life is not as perfect as that presentation that you were giving. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:10

And the thing is, whilst I felt people couldn't see through me, I mean I was young as well, people could see through me. People could see that I was wearing a mask. So I began to question for myself, this front, you know, this mask, isn't really as good as I as I thought it was. And then I moved through from investment banking into diplomatic work and then back round again into investment banking and was successfully really wearing the mask. I was doing really well. When we're young, high-functioning anxiety gets rewarded, doesn't it? We're seen as hardworking, we're seen as reliable, we're seen as really dedicated, but we are running often on anxiety in the background. So I then retrained in interior design, which seemed oddly a thing, like an odd choice, it seemed at the time. Uh, but when I look back on it, really the house is an expression of our soul. So I was very close at that point to getting the wonderful role that I have now that I created, you know, almost 30 years ago now. And then I had my daughter and the wheels came off. I spiraled into an emotional breakdown, and I had to really face the truth of the beliefs I was holding, of how misaligned I was, how incongruent I was in how I was living to who I really wanted to be. And that's when I began to to rebuild. And it was much quicker and much easier than I than I thought it would be with the right help. And I went on to create the work that I do now. Because every woman deserves to live mask-free in the confidence and the light of who they really are. And it's finding the right help that is dynamic and strategic enough, which is why, again, I've molded into my own way of working that I call psychodynamic mentoring.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

For the woman thinking, you know, listening to your story and thinking, well, I didn't really have nothing major happen to me like that. I it wasn't very long ago where I learned that trauma counts in very different ways. So for somebody who's thinking, well, I haven't had a lot of trauma, but yet I still face some of these anxious behaviors or self-sabotaging behaviors. What really counts as trauma and I guess what doesn't count as trauma? Good question.

SPEAKER_01 16:33

So I f I find very often with the with the ladies that I support, they will say, I never really had any major trauma in my life though. And that's because we identify trauma with mu with macro trauma, with big things, you know, with abuse, with a crash, with something horrific that happens. When actually what's really happening is that as an adult, we look back on our on our earlier life with our adult eyes, with our adult perspective. So we can diminish things that happen. Now, it may well be that nothing major happened, and that's great. If nothing major happened to you as a listener, I'm really, really happy for you. I genuinely am. That's it's beautiful that you had a a better childhood than I did, let's say. But the thing is, when you are a child, small, seemingly insignificant events can be traumatic that we would look back on with adult eyes and say, well, that wasn't really anything. It's all in the perspective. So for a child who feels confused, for a child who is talked over, for a child who consistently has bad parents' evenings, or a parent who's kind of quite difficult, quite demanding, let's say, on the side of a football pitch or a netball pitch, these small things create a sense of trauma because they create a sense of impending angst. Equally, it can be where there's a sense of over-responsibility. So often children, because of adult circumstances, so often children take on too much responsibility. Sometimes parents confide too much in their children. They treat them as friends, not as children. And this can create a sense of overburden. That's trauma. These are what we call micro-traumas. They are small chinks which begin to build over time. So these are just a couple of examples. There are there are lots of lots of examples. Let's pick another one of, I'm sure you might remember these days that's with sports at school, where the P teacher says, Okay, you and you pick a team, and everyone is feeling a sense of trauma, waiting to be picked, wondering if they're the one that's going to be left last and not picked. All these things create little bits of ambivalence, confusion, overburden, even neglect. Sometimes a child can have a parent who doesn't give them the love, almost dismisses them, or goes out too much, or forgets to feed them, forgets to go shopping, doesn't have food in. All of these things, they create little wounds, which we could call micro-traumas, and they build over time. So then when something happens in the present time, whether it's professionally or personally, it feeds back into the dirt in those wounds. And what was just a little thing with a big perspective back in the day, then becomes a much bigger thing today. And responses can get reactions can get blown out of proportion because you're responding from a micro trauma that got compounded. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, and and I love that because sometimes you think that trauma from the past is just a standalone trauma. But we talked about this on the pre-call, how I had this bit of aha when I was talking to you because it was like, oh, so that trauma created another trauma because of the way you responded, which then created another trauma because of the way you responded based on your past traumas. So then it just perpetually you're just in this constant state of a loop, I would say. You know, it just and does and does it get bigger each time? If I had a trauma that, as you say, has still dirt in the wound kind of thing, and I've never really dealt with that trauma, how does it perpetuate then, like you said, to get bigger and bigger, I suppose? Or does it? It does.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

So think of I'll get I'll give you two ideas. Let's think of it first this way as prodding a wound. If you have a wound and it can't heal because it's not clean, it's not clear, and then you're prodding it, it's gonna get nasty, isn't it? Let's look at it another way. And this is an uh an analogy or a metaphor I use often with my clients because it's a really fun one to understand. So we all carry around with us without even realizing it, an invisible script. And it's like on this invisible script, it says who we are, what we believe in, what we're capable of, what we tolerate. It's all on the script, but we don't know what's on our script. Nobody knows what's on their script unless they've done some decent personal development work, okay? Which I would highly recommend you do. Now, we only find out a little bit when someone, as we say, pushes our button and we get a reaction. And we, if with a bit of self-reflection, we could begin to think, okay, maybe I I've got a sensitivity to that. Maybe I do doubt that about myself. Maybe I do fear that is true about myself. Okay. And then we carry on through our life, and then someone else, another day, pushes a button, and again we come back to the script. And what happens whether we consult our script or whether we don't, every time somebody pushes a button, it's like this little tiny button that we start with gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger until we are eventually. Eventually carrying around a button that is so big we can hardly carry it. It's like we're carrying around one of these big inflatable grasshoppers, if you know what one of those space hoppers, if you know what one of those bouncy toys are. And the thing is, the bigger the button gets, the easier it is for people to press it.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

And that's where people begin to lead with their button or their buttons, whatever it might be. And it's because there's dirt in the wound that hasn't been cleared.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Okay, so let's talk a little bit now about okay, so you know, clearly everybody can probably figure out a little bit of their trauma, but or there's just a behavior, as you kind of said, you know, perpetuates and gets bigger and bigger, and therefore that button gets easier and easier to push. What do you think, like your work is very different than classic sort of talk therapy, correct? It is. It is very much. So what's the key shift, I guess, in your approach that helps women change that way of thinking or that behavior or to like flatten the button, I guess, just to, you know, and moving away from not just understanding why she feels that way, but like, you know, beyond kind of helping her understand why, but also helping her, you know, shrink the button pushing.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, big question. Okay, so let's let's start first with how and why I'm different. So I provide psychodynamic mentoring, not standard counseling or coaching. To be honest, therapy these days is alphabet super therapy. There are so many different types of therapy, and therapy per se can be quite boxy in that people may say practitioners, GPs, they may recommend a certain type of therapy, whether it's say psychotherapy, hypnotherapy, EMDR, NLP, CBT, you know, so many different types of therapies. And the problem with that is that it puts people into a box and it makes it very restrictive. And it's really not one size fits all. We're all very unique in who we are in this spiritual being having a human experience, let's say. So one size all fits all doesn't work, and it has to be client-led, not therapist-led. So it has to be with the focus on being, and this is a big thing to say, but the focus on being safe for the client over safe for the therapist. We live in a very strong culture, don't we, of, you know, if I get it wrong, I might get sued. And it stops people getting proper help because the only way to really deliver proper help is to meet someone where they are at with what they've got going on. Not getting them to fit into a scripted process, a set framework of someone else's ideas. It's got to be client-led, it's got to be client-generated. That's, you know, that's a really important difference that I've identified for myself from years and years ago, you know, having had therapy for myself and having obviously communicated with so many women who've found their way to me, who've been in therapy, whether it's psychiatry, psychotherapy, counseling, whatever it is, for years and years and years with no success. And they just feel daunted and disillusioned. To actually get the right help is life-changing. And the way that I do it is I provide a blended mix of therapies. I'm skilled in a range of psychological therapies, and I combine this with communication skills for life mastery. So we get to understand what's going on, we heal from the past, we move forward then with momentum and excellent communication so that needs are understood, boundaries are understood, and the woman feels fully seen and heard. And it's not just the woman, you know, I work primarily with women. Women are often the way in, but from there, I'll often work with the couple dynamic, the partner, as much as with with my client sometimes. We bring in children into the into the dynamic so that the family moves from dysfunction into full function with appreciation, with love, with communication. So it's very different to just a one-size fix fits all boxy method that doesn't really touch the surface, you know, where we go deep, but in a way that is time efficient. With my coaster escapes, people come and spend, they fly in from all over the world and come and spend two days with me with accommodation, lovely food, and we'd sort it all out. You know, they can come alone, they can come with their partner or spouse or with a family member, wherever the the difference, you know, the the strife is that they need to heal, and we scoop them up into safety and we'd sort it.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

So Lisa, I was just gonna ask you, can you take that now and without, you know, obviously the confidentiality aspect of it, but can you take that sort of what that scooping up looks like and spending time with you and and where do you kind of like what is the real journey through the lens of maybe an example of okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Well it's a very bespoke process, is the first thing to say. It's very individual. You know, I I work very much from the philosopher Rumi. I don't know if you're familiar with his with his work, but he has a beautiful quote that I'll I'll paraphrase. It's the essence of my whole practice and and of every relationship that I that I have in my life as well. And it's this there is a place beyond right doing and wrongdoing. I'll meet you there. So that's where it starts. It's allowing someone to be vulnerable, to actually take off the mask and be really honest with themselves and with me so that I can help them, to begin to understand the patterns that have been playing out, where the trauma, micro-macro trauma comes from, doing the work that we need to do in the childhood dynamics to clear that, to heal from that, to then bring them forward with the right communication with themselves, with people around them, so that they can begin to really own the truth of who they are and move forward confidently in a way that gets them seen and heard. So part of that process is understandably looking at their beliefs that they have on that invisible script. And I have a proprietary process, which I'm very proud of, which I keep quite tightly under wraps. I'm sure you'll understand that. But it's a four-step process that allows the people who work with me to move through it, whether they are, you know, a woman, a man, family member, you know, teenage into twenties, to actually really begin to understand what their limiting beliefs are and how they can practically, pragmatically, honestly move and grow beyond them to become empowered and really own their truth today. So this is why my practice is called empowered momentum, because we empower first and then we gather the momentum.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

So Lisa, I'm sort of taken back to that story when you were in uh investment banking and your boss said, you know, it kind of gave you a bit of a jab, I'm gonna say. You know, you said that most people can recognize something in others before others recognize it in themselves. So what would be a first step? Like, I how do I know I have an issue? Again, going back to that statement where I've been functioning this way for so long, I just think it's my normal, I think it's my baseline kind of thing. And so when do I recognize, well, how do I know to recognize that I have something that's inhibiting me to or preventing me from moving forward either in my business, in my relationship, my friendships, just like in any scenario, how do I, how do I, what is the first step I think that I need to give myself?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

All right. So quite simply it's this are you happy? Are you happy? Are you at peace inside? Are you living a life that is true to you? That's they are the questions you need to ask yourself. And if on any level there is a little bit of a question, then I want you to go to my self-esteem quiz that you can find on a dedicated page that I've made, actually, Lilette, for your listeners. That's at welcome.com. I'll say that again. Welcome.com. Yeah. Now there you will find a self self-esteem audit quiz that you can take and that will help you to dive into the different aspects of yourself, of your life, where you may be misfiring, that can begin to shine a light on why that is. So we'll we'll look at your feelings that are tapping into any wounds. Right. We'll look at your communication that is tapping into self-doubt, and we'll look at your beliefs, how you're thinking. And again, that's tapping into the wounds that are feeding self-doubt. That's your starting place. You can then book a call with me from there, and I will walk you through a full assessment so that you can get some real clarity, some real understanding with some options for what you can do in a really effective, efficient way to move forward that has been successful for nearly 30 years without fail. You can also get my book. Actually, I've written three books, or actually four. One's a private memoir.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

But I've published three books. My latest book is called From Anxious to Empowered, and that's inspiration and advice for a calm and happy life. It's a lovely, gentle starting place with some really good action steps in there and lots of case studies as well to inspire you and encourage you. I've also written two books for teenagers, actually, as well, that are handbooks with lots of downloadable resources that can help teenagers in their own private way to move beyond any anxiety they are experiencing so that they don't become an adult who's struggling later on in life.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Yeah, and that's that's like if if every teenager could recognize that they need that, you know, they take action. Exactly, exactly, exactly. Well, that's wonderful that you've got that page. I'll definitely put it in the show notes. Let's leave the listeners with a key message. What is the one insight and one action that they could take today, other than going to do this quiz, but just even to like, I guess, understand what is the script that they're ready to release. Okay. Do you know I'm gonna give you more than one?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

I want to be super generous for your listeners. Amazing. I know what it's like to be stuck and not know where to go and what to do. I really do. I remember those days. It's horrible. So let me see if I can help your listeners to shift just a little bit today. So, as a listener, I want you to ask yourself, where am I over giving to feel enough? If you are a busy female entrepreneur in your life, chances are you are giving in lots of different ways to try to meet lots of demands and feeling like you're falling short. So ask yourself, where am I over giving to feel enough? And then ask yourself, where am I holding back instead of speaking up? Now, where are you sitting on your voice to keep the peace, to try and get through another argument or avoid an argument? Ask yourself, where am I holding back instead of speaking up? And when you have reflected on those two questions, I want you to then take one action. Just one, one action. And this action can be, I'll give you three examples. One action can be expressing a need clearly. Busy working women, but often needs that your personal needs get put on the back burner because you're trying to meet everyone else's needs. So come back to that truthful question and express one need clearly. Another action you could take is to set one boundary. Just one boundary, just say no where you would have said yes. When we say uh yes to someone else, we're saying no to ourselves. And that's often no to a need. So reset that boundary and say no. And then another option, final option. I want you to actually say what you think calmly. Don't say what you think someone wants to hear. Say what you actually think and notice that the ceiling doesn't fall in. So that's it. Express a need clearly, set one boundary, say what you actually think. I'll say those again. Express a need clearly, set one boundary, and say what you actually think calmly.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Yeah, no, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

Just one final comment, just one final sum-up thought. I would say you don't need to become someone new to succeed in midlife. You just need to remove what's been covering who you already are.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Yeah, so a lot of women are fearful to take a step, they start to lose confidence in midlife. So say that one more time.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

You don't need to become someone new to succeed in midlife. Yeah. You send it to me.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

It's always about midlife reinvention half the time, you know. You hear so much about that, like reinventing yourself, reinventing yourself. But it's more what you're saying is just be yourself and don't sort of put a glass ceiling on yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

I think it's absolutely don't try to become someone new in order to succeed. Just remove what's been covering up who you already are and come back into the truth of who you are and own that because you are already amazing.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Yeah, that's the truth. Lisa, that yeah, that was great. Thank you so much. I appreciate you uh making that special page. I will make sure that that page is in the show notes. And I think everybody should go and do that quiz. So I'll be definitely promoting that. But thank you so much. Really unique what you're doing, and so happy to hear how you've evolved in your own personal journey. Thank you. So thank you for thank you for sharing a pleasure.